The apocalyptic bits of Yeshua's speech have always been the toughest bits on my teeth, Martin. Glad to see what you will come up with on this quest. Back before Foxwomen and shirts sewn of bogdown I was too sick with the literal and historicism to keep its texture close to the skin. From this side though you set the lure and that Bulgakov fellow also seems interesting. I do remember that Christian anarchist Jacques Ellul's work on the book was what helped cleanse him from the toxins of Calvin and sent him towards a universalism worthy of Phantastes. I read it some years ago and owe it a reunion. You might find something useful in his unique trip through it. I catch Ellul's scent the fire Kingsnorth seems to spend a fair few nights around this season. Can't recall the level of mythos in it as I didn't have that eye open back then. But its cheaply pocketed again now that its back in print. Thanks for doing this work.
Oct 2, 2022·edited Oct 3, 2022Liked by Martin Shaw
I’m just finishing up “Courting the Wild Twin” on Audible. I did skip to chapter 4 at the end of 1 to listen to the stories in their entirety. I must admit that the first story suddenly, and unexpectedly, found me weeping in my car as I listened. I’m very grateful you take the time to record these Martin. I have a feeling I’m going to end up not being able to listen to anyone else telling stories…….
The Donkey Path is such a great title. I’ve thought about the donkey, how it represents stamina and determination and a lot of integrity that is often misunderstood as stubbornness. How it thrives on such meager portions. The Book of Job mentions the donkey a lot.
Thank you Martin. This moved me deeply. It is not lost on me that this arrived on Yom Kippur, and on the second day of Durga Puja, the great Hindu honoring of the great mother. Kali, an aspect of Durga, both frightful and transforming, a demanding goddess who bears some resemblance to the image of Christ you describe. I am not, oh not in any way seeking to equate all this. I am just experiencing the wonder of it all. That there are deep rumblings on this day if we choose to notice.
I've just listened to this after seeing Moonage Daydream at the cinema. A tremendous, synesthetic cinematic documentary journey through a cut up of stage and film footage and interviews with David Bowie, just released.
Ziggy's apocalyptic lyrics of that great track Five Years just sprang to mind.
The Book of Revelations is an unknown mystery to me. But my interest is piqued. What would the album sound like? I fell at his feet like a dead man.
Have I confessed my obsession with Dr. Margaret Barker and her work on here yet? I love her. Her perspectives feel like a breath of fresh air along with her scriptural and cultural excavations of Wisdom/Goddess worship(frequently relating to temple traditions). I find her views and research on Christianity fascinating. Definitely check her out. My second confession is that I haven’t read all of her books(still a work in progress). Dr. Barker has numerous books(at least one on Revelations and a short video) and videos on YouTube. I want to be her research assistant, if she’ll have me. 😁🤓
Oct 2, 2022·edited Oct 2, 2022Liked by Martin Shaw
It has been a strange row to hoe out here on the wild edge, bringing rural heft to the contemplative Christian monastic tradition. Not embarrassed of it… even though to fall for its beauty is to be patronized, even by internal gatekeepers who’ve forgotten that oral tradition is also valid/alive. Very grateful to know you waited and watched in Patmos. For my part this week, it appears I will be sitting in St Ninian’s cave, bringing timeless openness to the ancient door, making a threshold, between the pre-axial and the Christian pantheon. I come to the earth-based Christ from “this” side, having never really left… (not really)… and many are coming back from the other side, and I hope we can meet somewhere at the middle, because it is collective compression and threshold we need now. Not just threshold for the current apocalypse, but we need to open all of them, all the way back… make room for the ever present origin to flow throughout all time.
Thank you for the Sunday Bread Martin. My mind is awash with the imagery that you create with your writing. I think I will sit in the peace of the cave a bit longer.
"Revelation is happening always if we can just behold it. I begin to come back to myself. I look around." So true -- everywhere, all the time! Love reading your reflections on encountering Revelation and old John, and sitting in his cave. Speaking of caves: John's script doesn't read like Plato's, but then it seems John stayed in the cave and explored the shadows, while Plato got the hell out of there....... The Revelation of John has suffered more than most (books and epistles of the Bible) what with the modern and perhaps not so modern literal interpretation of these incredible visions and, well, revelations, that reek (pleasantly :-) of symbolic wonders and warnings.
Another part I appreciated, your comments regarding the repetitive dynamic of revelation, of the Christ returning over and over... in each person's life! Yes, that is key. It is not a one-time event, it's on-going throughout our lives. Gregory of Nyssa put it well, and I paraphrase, we are going on from perfection to perfection. (This phrase was picked up, by the way, by your fellow Brit, of a few years back :-) John Wesley, who was also intrigued by the early Christians.) "...biblical apocalypse ... involves the return of Christ, rather than resulting in bleak nothingness. Something astonishing is coming. The Divine King returns. This is something that happens over and over and over in the life of a spiritually awake person. So revelation is actually a passage not an ending, it’s leading somewhere."
Oct 2, 2022·edited Oct 2, 2022Liked by Martin Shaw
I teach the Bible and always have been entranced by Revelation. My favorite being 7:17 - For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” One study I do is exploring what is Jesus like now - post ascension and glorified John 7:37-39 is a key, the one who gives the Holy Ghost. I go through his appearances and words he did post-ascension in Acts and in 2 Corinthians 12. I come to the face like the sun scene in Revelation 1 and hearken back then to Ezekiel 1 showing the same person is seen there. And finish with the tender touch of his right hand on John and his most lovely words of comfort,
As I was reading your Sunday Bread I was reminded of Makoto Fujimura's book: Culture Care, where he riffs on the character in Beowulf - Mearcstapas - or 'border-stalker' or 'border-crosser'. This character apparently was someone who lived on the fringes of their tribe, moving across the border between the material world and the metaphysical; bringing news of another realm and another way of life. It sounds like John was such a person and his book was his diary. And it seems like the call of the Christian in any age.
Also: to add to your journeying in Revelation may I suggest: Reading Revelation Responsibly: Uncivil Worship and Witness: Following the Lamb into the New Creation by Michael Gorman
"At the last moment Yeshua shows up. He doesn’t bellow at the demon or act ugly. He talks quietly to it and plays it music."
This reminds me of the Strength card in the Tarot. It looks like she is forcibly trying to shut the Lion's mouth but her face is gentle. Instead of thinking of her as trying to have dominion or to control, I like to think of her as singing down the mouth of the Lion - to soothe - to be with.
I always loved to say that the real prophets didn't see into time, rather they saw into depth. Into the here and now, in to the eternity that is continually being unveiled. This is why the Bible speaks so clearly, even now. It speaks to the depths of reality. Truly miraculous.
I love the part where you found revelation in the smallest detail of repetition. A good story always ends us giving us what we didn't know we needed. As someone who sought the visionary experience in the exotic and wild places, I find comfort in the simple obediences of the Orthodox Church. "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much" (Luke 16:10)
There's also something quite mystical about the Church teachings of the Liturgy and how the Book of Revelation is a description of the Heavenly Liturgy which is reflected here on earth within each Liturgy. When we are standing in the Church, in those rare moments when our hearts are absolutely inside the words being spoken, we are in fact, ontologically, standing in eternity, beyond time and space. The smell of frankincense is the emanation of the archetypal frankincense that we inhabit inside of in the Heavenly Liturgy of eternity. The glow of the icons is the golden glow of the endless light of Heaven. Liturgy is a remembering. A remembering of the future inheritance.
May your journey continually be blessed. And please make it to the PNW on your trip to north America. God knows we need some good stories right now.
This is a stoneware bowl that we made with a verse I love from Revelation. It is now in a Hawk Creek, a small Lutheran Church in the upper Minnesota River Valley. I agree with Andrew that Revelation is a problem with it grizzly bits and its contemporary interpretation by fundamentalists.
Hello Martin, thank you for this and you’re reading of it was especially moving. I recently listened to a conversation with Johnathan Pageau and another writer who mentioned you on the subject of “strange storytelling.” In the discussion they mused on the possibilities of revelation entering through the “weird.” And that sounds about right to me. I mentioned this to my friend Sunday after our liturgical services. She is a great lover of Flannery O’Connor and referred me to this:
“Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make ye odd.”
The apocalyptic bits of Yeshua's speech have always been the toughest bits on my teeth, Martin. Glad to see what you will come up with on this quest. Back before Foxwomen and shirts sewn of bogdown I was too sick with the literal and historicism to keep its texture close to the skin. From this side though you set the lure and that Bulgakov fellow also seems interesting. I do remember that Christian anarchist Jacques Ellul's work on the book was what helped cleanse him from the toxins of Calvin and sent him towards a universalism worthy of Phantastes. I read it some years ago and owe it a reunion. You might find something useful in his unique trip through it. I catch Ellul's scent the fire Kingsnorth seems to spend a fair few nights around this season. Can't recall the level of mythos in it as I didn't have that eye open back then. But its cheaply pocketed again now that its back in print. Thanks for doing this work.
I’m just finishing up “Courting the Wild Twin” on Audible. I did skip to chapter 4 at the end of 1 to listen to the stories in their entirety. I must admit that the first story suddenly, and unexpectedly, found me weeping in my car as I listened. I’m very grateful you take the time to record these Martin. I have a feeling I’m going to end up not being able to listen to anyone else telling stories…….
The Donkey Path is such a great title. I’ve thought about the donkey, how it represents stamina and determination and a lot of integrity that is often misunderstood as stubbornness. How it thrives on such meager portions. The Book of Job mentions the donkey a lot.
5 Who set the wild donkey free?
Who released the swift donkey from the harness?
6 I made the wilderness his home
and the salt flats his dwelling.
7 He scorns the tumult of the city
and never hears the shouts of a driver.
8 He roams the mountains for pasture,
searching for any green thing.
Job 39 (from God’s speech)
Thank you Martin. This moved me deeply. It is not lost on me that this arrived on Yom Kippur, and on the second day of Durga Puja, the great Hindu honoring of the great mother. Kali, an aspect of Durga, both frightful and transforming, a demanding goddess who bears some resemblance to the image of Christ you describe. I am not, oh not in any way seeking to equate all this. I am just experiencing the wonder of it all. That there are deep rumblings on this day if we choose to notice.
Thanks so much Martin. I was transported.
The apocalypse through the eyes of Ziggy Stardust
I've just listened to this after seeing Moonage Daydream at the cinema. A tremendous, synesthetic cinematic documentary journey through a cut up of stage and film footage and interviews with David Bowie, just released.
Ziggy's apocalyptic lyrics of that great track Five Years just sprang to mind.
The Book of Revelations is an unknown mystery to me. But my interest is piqued. What would the album sound like? I fell at his feet like a dead man.
Good Sunday morning Dear Martin and Parrish!
What an adventure, Martin!
Have I confessed my obsession with Dr. Margaret Barker and her work on here yet? I love her. Her perspectives feel like a breath of fresh air along with her scriptural and cultural excavations of Wisdom/Goddess worship(frequently relating to temple traditions). I find her views and research on Christianity fascinating. Definitely check her out. My second confession is that I haven’t read all of her books(still a work in progress). Dr. Barker has numerous books(at least one on Revelations and a short video) and videos on YouTube. I want to be her research assistant, if she’ll have me. 😁🤓
Happy October everyone! ❤️
It has been a strange row to hoe out here on the wild edge, bringing rural heft to the contemplative Christian monastic tradition. Not embarrassed of it… even though to fall for its beauty is to be patronized, even by internal gatekeepers who’ve forgotten that oral tradition is also valid/alive. Very grateful to know you waited and watched in Patmos. For my part this week, it appears I will be sitting in St Ninian’s cave, bringing timeless openness to the ancient door, making a threshold, between the pre-axial and the Christian pantheon. I come to the earth-based Christ from “this” side, having never really left… (not really)… and many are coming back from the other side, and I hope we can meet somewhere at the middle, because it is collective compression and threshold we need now. Not just threshold for the current apocalypse, but we need to open all of them, all the way back… make room for the ever present origin to flow throughout all time.
Thank you for the Sunday Bread Martin. My mind is awash with the imagery that you create with your writing. I think I will sit in the peace of the cave a bit longer.
"Revelation is happening always if we can just behold it. I begin to come back to myself. I look around." So true -- everywhere, all the time! Love reading your reflections on encountering Revelation and old John, and sitting in his cave. Speaking of caves: John's script doesn't read like Plato's, but then it seems John stayed in the cave and explored the shadows, while Plato got the hell out of there....... The Revelation of John has suffered more than most (books and epistles of the Bible) what with the modern and perhaps not so modern literal interpretation of these incredible visions and, well, revelations, that reek (pleasantly :-) of symbolic wonders and warnings.
Another part I appreciated, your comments regarding the repetitive dynamic of revelation, of the Christ returning over and over... in each person's life! Yes, that is key. It is not a one-time event, it's on-going throughout our lives. Gregory of Nyssa put it well, and I paraphrase, we are going on from perfection to perfection. (This phrase was picked up, by the way, by your fellow Brit, of a few years back :-) John Wesley, who was also intrigued by the early Christians.) "...biblical apocalypse ... involves the return of Christ, rather than resulting in bleak nothingness. Something astonishing is coming. The Divine King returns. This is something that happens over and over and over in the life of a spiritually awake person. So revelation is actually a passage not an ending, it’s leading somewhere."
Thanks again!
I teach the Bible and always have been entranced by Revelation. My favorite being 7:17 - For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” One study I do is exploring what is Jesus like now - post ascension and glorified John 7:37-39 is a key, the one who gives the Holy Ghost. I go through his appearances and words he did post-ascension in Acts and in 2 Corinthians 12. I come to the face like the sun scene in Revelation 1 and hearken back then to Ezekiel 1 showing the same person is seen there. And finish with the tender touch of his right hand on John and his most lovely words of comfort,
As I was reading your Sunday Bread I was reminded of Makoto Fujimura's book: Culture Care, where he riffs on the character in Beowulf - Mearcstapas - or 'border-stalker' or 'border-crosser'. This character apparently was someone who lived on the fringes of their tribe, moving across the border between the material world and the metaphysical; bringing news of another realm and another way of life. It sounds like John was such a person and his book was his diary. And it seems like the call of the Christian in any age.
Also: to add to your journeying in Revelation may I suggest: Reading Revelation Responsibly: Uncivil Worship and Witness: Following the Lamb into the New Creation by Michael Gorman
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/9799141
"At the last moment Yeshua shows up. He doesn’t bellow at the demon or act ugly. He talks quietly to it and plays it music."
This reminds me of the Strength card in the Tarot. It looks like she is forcibly trying to shut the Lion's mouth but her face is gentle. Instead of thinking of her as trying to have dominion or to control, I like to think of her as singing down the mouth of the Lion - to soothe - to be with.
I always loved to say that the real prophets didn't see into time, rather they saw into depth. Into the here and now, in to the eternity that is continually being unveiled. This is why the Bible speaks so clearly, even now. It speaks to the depths of reality. Truly miraculous.
I love the part where you found revelation in the smallest detail of repetition. A good story always ends us giving us what we didn't know we needed. As someone who sought the visionary experience in the exotic and wild places, I find comfort in the simple obediences of the Orthodox Church. "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much" (Luke 16:10)
There's also something quite mystical about the Church teachings of the Liturgy and how the Book of Revelation is a description of the Heavenly Liturgy which is reflected here on earth within each Liturgy. When we are standing in the Church, in those rare moments when our hearts are absolutely inside the words being spoken, we are in fact, ontologically, standing in eternity, beyond time and space. The smell of frankincense is the emanation of the archetypal frankincense that we inhabit inside of in the Heavenly Liturgy of eternity. The glow of the icons is the golden glow of the endless light of Heaven. Liturgy is a remembering. A remembering of the future inheritance.
May your journey continually be blessed. And please make it to the PNW on your trip to north America. God knows we need some good stories right now.
This is a stoneware bowl that we made with a verse I love from Revelation. It is now in a Hawk Creek, a small Lutheran Church in the upper Minnesota River Valley. I agree with Andrew that Revelation is a problem with it grizzly bits and its contemporary interpretation by fundamentalists.
Hello Martin, thank you for this and you’re reading of it was especially moving. I recently listened to a conversation with Johnathan Pageau and another writer who mentioned you on the subject of “strange storytelling.” In the discussion they mused on the possibilities of revelation entering through the “weird.” And that sounds about right to me. I mentioned this to my friend Sunday after our liturgical services. She is a great lover of Flannery O’Connor and referred me to this:
“Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make ye odd.”
Be well.
Kathryn
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